Interviews and articles
Interview: Ms. Tymoshenko is one of the the most potent and effective domestic politicians
Victor Pinchuk - formerly known as an oligarch and in spite of post-revolution "re-privatization" – is still one of the wealthiest persons in Ukraine. During Kuchma's presidency, he did not give up on participating in privatization of Kryvorizhstal for a mere song. After the election campaign, everyone in the country was aware of the fact that Kryvorizhstal "was stolen - not privatized".
Pinchuk did not feel shy availing himself of his position in facilitating his own business and even such a "trifle" as purchasing for several hectares of preserve lands for a symbolic sum of money not far from Kyiv.
"Kuchma’s son-in-law" title used to imply great possibilities, and after Gongadze case, it became a heavy burden.
However, Pinchuk became the president’s son-in-law officially only several months before the end of Kuchma’s second term in office who was in bad odor by that time.
From then on, the rumors about Pinchuk’s being a supporter of convenience marriage faded away.
In 2004, none of the political parties tooled the risk of including Victor Pinchuk into its voting list. This is precisely why he is not an oligarch any more, but just an ordinary big businessperson and art patron, and as he personally puts it, a romantic.
Here are the answers of Pinchuk to the questions from a dozen of journalists from various publications.
One should note that Pinchuk rarely gives interviews. Usually it happens when reporters surround him. This is what happened this time when journalists seized him and beset with questions at the exit from Lyvadia Palace that hosted "Yalta European Strategy" Conference financed by him.
- Yesterday, Mr. Nemtsov defined you as the most ardent fighter against Tymoshenko. Can you comment on this?
- I think that this is somewhat a joke. However, as you know many a true word is spoken in jest. I have no idea of what he is talking about. I have never fought against Mrs. Tymoshenko.
- How are getting along with Tymoshenko now?
- In no way.
- Do you think she still has a chance to become a Premier?
- I think she does.
- Just like any other politician does? Or is she in a more favorable position?
- I think she is. She is one of the most powerful and competent Ukrainian politicians. I would even dare to define her as a politician-populist, who is capable of attracting voters’ attention.
During her premiership... Well, I would not like to dwell on my personal point of view, however if one would want to consider figures, the actual figures evidenced that the economy had not been developing.
- What is your standpoint regarding the present state of affairs with coalition and what is the way out?
- I repeat once again - any one-color coalition would always be unstable and inoperative. Neither the blue nor the orange one. We need a broad coalition - "Our Ukraine" should be added to the existing coalition at the least. Without doing this, there is no use to talk about any long-term stability in Ukraine.
- Do you think "Our Ukraine" would access the coalition?
- They’d better sit and negotiate. Negotiate not the offices but a strategy, prospects and everything that unite and not disunite.
A political force may state that they would never sit to a table with these and those. I would like to insult nobody ... The current situation is being dominated by emotions and labels.
Moreover, if you consider not ambitions but a European state, one should look for things in common. For instance, the Party of Regions and "Our Ukraine" do not actually have any distinct differences regarding most of the strategic issues.
- What about NATO then?
- They did find a right solution, did not they? Let the Ukrainian people make the decision. I believe that this is a compromise and right solution.
They need to define a unifying objective and push ahead jointly on accomplishing it.
But what we see, as I call it "fight for water-tower", is that they are wrangling over the offices, secretly figuring out whom to cooperate with and being afraid to speak about it in public. This is what is happening...
We are being criticized for having spent four months in vain, which is a quarter of year! We’d rather use the available chance and build up a new country.
Our generation has this chance. That is way we need unifying ideas...
I might seem to stick to a romantic approach... Nevertheless, I believe that some energetic people possessing certain leadership skills should team up and say, “We have a possibility to develop a project "Ukraine" and to implement it.
Of course, such a team should consist of young generation. Unfortunately, the number of young generation is very small in today’s parliament. New political forces have not matured yet.
This is interesting, indeed. And struggle for power, to my mind, is neither romantic nor fascinating.
- Do you also think that the last six months for Ukraine were just a waste of time?
- From the historical point of view, it is not. It’s not a waste of time, but rather a useful experience. We’ve learnt what one needs not to do and how one should not act. And from the economic and political point of view, this is a huge loss! There is no excuse for that.
Consider this – the orange revolution was over and the entire world was expecting so much from us! They would line up to come to this country with investments! It was a time when we could get away with many things, obtain serious guarantees, concessions but we messed up everything!
The reason is that there used to be a team that had one enemy – they wanted to overcome the regime and this was the only goal that unified them. And if they were unified by a goal to build up a new country, we would have had a different outcome.
And since there was nothing except for struggle for power among those people that would have unified them, the time was wasted. An office may not be the objective.
- Victor Mikhailovich, as a businessman how can you comment on the fact that even with the political chaos we are observing now, there IS economic growth in the country?
- You could see what the outcome was when the business was, now and then, interfered with... When nobody intervenes with the business, it develops in compliance with objective laws.
Of, course, it would be much better if the state could have a strategy that would speed up the development interfering now and then, if required, protecting the interests of the producers within other markets, and created fair laws, stimulating investments and development of economy.
But if the political crisis continues, it will not lead to anything worthwhile.
- Has the situation become tougher for you as a representative of business?
- Frankly speaking, I got quite an interesting and instructive experience last year...
- What about revenues?
- I got revenues, because any experience is always positive. We not only received, we were the ones to pay the heaviest taxes in the country, and as a result, we were awarded with certificate of merit for being the best taxpayer.
- Why did you use not to pay then?
- The Ukrainian business, just like the entire Ukrainian community, usually becomes fully ripe gradually. And a sensible person, in any community, especially with no comprehensible laws, is not likely to pay more than what current circumstances require.
An gradually you are starting to understand that it is profitable to pay more, because it is profitable to be transparent, and if you ARE transparent, you can appear in the inter-domestic markets and your capitalization as well as your value will get higher.
- Are you planning to hold IPO?
- Definitely, yes...
...And as a result, the more taxes you pay within proper system and fair laws, the wealthier you become...
This is a typical process. There is no doubt that the business used to paid less taxes...
- When are you planning to hold IPO?
- The sooner, the better. I am all set to do it even tomorrow and they say that I am not. There are certain rules...
- Did you mean Interpipe or some other enterprises within the group?
- The enterprises... I am not ready to answer the question.
I'd put it this way: there are different enterprises and different businesses where I am a shareholder. I believe this is the right way for business. That's why some of the businesses are moving towards this direction.
- Same applies to the TV channels?
- I reckon that the media must become a transparent business and be open for investors.
You could see the successful emergence of СТС on the market of shares. And there is nothing better about them. This is the quality, not the quantity that counts...
That's why we need to become a transparent country with transparent business.
- Let's proceed to the economy – what does Arcelor and Mittal Steel merger mean for the Ukrainian economy?
- Well, this points to the fact that Kryvorizhstal should not have been sold to foreigners under no circumstances. Because Ukraine lost its chance to create its own metallurgical player.
I would not like to discuss the issue on whether Kryvorizhstal was taken from us in a right or wrong way. I do not advocate our privatization. But we shouldn't have given Kryvorizhstal to the others!
We must create our own global players. Even with the State's participation in Kryvorizhstal. The country did have such opportunity, but now, without Kryvorizhstal, it does not.
Indeed, this should be the strategy of the State that consists in holding certain leading positions within markets. Today, we might have received for Kryvorizhstal half as much again, because the global inflation is underway. Well, what should we do now? Should we take it back and sell it again, huh?
Lakshmi Mittal could have paid one billion more, because this not the price that is important to him but the strategy, a long-term one for decades.
As a result, the plant was taken away from one oligarchs but what was the point of giving it to the other ones? And the same is happening in other spheres as well. This is not a strategy!
- Do you think it got better in Ukraine after the Orange Revolution?
- The Orange Revolution is a unique fact, and can see lots of positive about it. However, the Orange Revolution and the Presidential elections is something different for me. Because the Orange Revolution is a unique social manifestation, which we can be proud of. It was such an intense emotional expression of the society...
The other point is that most of the politicians failed justify expectations of the people. What we can say is that how people acted struggling for their future. This will definitely become a Ukrainian and world's history as something unique.
- You said that that the politicians had failed to justify the people's credit. What was your personal disappointment?
- Indeed. I also had certain expectations. I heard them saying about supremacy of law.
- Didn't it happen?
- I think it didn't.
- You are not a parliamentarian any more. Do you have any bit of leverage to influence the current situation?
- Leverage... Well, I can gather a certain number of sensible and influential people, public figures, for a discussion. They would gather together, discuss certain issues, and suggest a decision. This is also a possibility of leverage...
- How would you define your current status?
- I am a businessperson. Not an oligarch, because I deal neither with politics nor with authorities at the moment. I'm a big Ukrainian businessperson, striving to take active part in social life of this country.
- According to the Forbs ranking you are among the wealthiest people of the world. Do you think this is positive for the image of Ukraine?
- I believe it is positive that the country has legitimate businesspersons, as we are, and we are developing.
I can perfectly understand that, and it applies to the rest of the world, not everyone should like wealthy people, which is quite normal. However, politicians must not stir up hatred within community.
It should be more advisable to say that business is needed for the development of economy. The country should better be proud of this instead of being severe upon it.
- It was rumored that you provided financial support to Pora-PRP and Veche [parties], is it true.
- No.
- What do you think of Veche? Is it a promising project or it should be suspended?
- I am supportive of movement of new or at least relatively new sensible politicians into the Ukrainian political arena. The ones who are willing to speak about common values but not about stuff and nonsense.
NATO and Language issues will be settled by the politicians or, if they fail to, by the people through referendum.
I think there exist somewhat different priorities whereby we would want to work out a very pragmatic, step-by-step business-plan for a project called "Ukraine of XXI century and its place in the world". And we have to answer the question: "what can we offer to the world?
To make it going we need to arrange a brainstorming discussion of all talented representatives from all political forces. Such a discussion may last for months. If they had brought up the issue after the Maidan [revolution], the discussion would have been over by now and we could have started implementing the plan.
I believe that it far more important for the new modern people to work in such a team than to hold an office. I might seem idealistic, but I really want this team to be created regardless of any liking or disliking.
- You are now talking just like President Yushchenko usually does. He would say that the people's heart should bleed for Ukraine, suggesting to sit to a table and find a solution on how to move forward...
- You know, we've got certain differences between each other. I can discourse upon anything and share my opinion. And he is expected to act, make decisions, and bear serious responsibility. And I can just discourse upon anything...
- Victor Mikhailovich, why do you so often make such political mistakes as, for instance, supporting parties Ozimoye Pokoleniye ["Winter Generation] and Veche?
- I strongly believe that a new generation must enter the Ukrainian politics. I am doing my best to achieve it. I may be mistaken and do mistakes, but basically, we will succeed at the end of the day...
- The people do not seem to be very new...
-...May be I am not too good with the selection. Hope someone will manage to do it better. All of these attempts with Winter Generation, Pora and Veche are very important. The first pancake is always lumpy, you know. If we do not try, new politicians will emerge anyway but it's going to take much more time. We should try to speed up and stimulate the delivery...
- You do not regret spending the money in vain, do you?
- One way or another, investments for the community development is a right thing. One should draw the moral.
We have politicians, quite sensible and nice personalities driven by excessive ambitions, which is why there over twenty political projects [parties] who were reluctant to team up because everyone was craving to be the number 1, not the number 2.
- Whom are you talking about?
- I am talking about Bill Gates, who teamed up with Paul Allen. One of them had more assets and the other one had less at the time. Now one has $50 bln the other one $25 bln, which is not bad too. They set up a unique campaign.
Now, we also have a chance to team up and build up a new country. Everybody still has such a chance as yet...
